You are listening to My Freedom Grove podcast with Gretchen Hernandez, episode 68.
Welcome to My Freedom Grove podcast. The all inclusive podcast that teaches mindset and business tools. We'll help you rise as your authentic self. Be unshakable with your emotional freedom and unstoppable in achieving any goal and living your purpose. I'm your host, Gretchen Hernandez. If you want to put your mental health first in life, relationships and business, you've come to the right place.
Hi, my strong friends. Hey, happy April. It's spring. We are starting a whole new evolution of life. We see all of the flowers and everything popping up. Now having the scientific background, you know, I love talking about evolution.
A few years back, I came across an image of something that said personal evolution. I thought, well, that's an interesting thing to think about. I had never really considered that. I was always evolving. Every human on the planet was always evolving. We always start off as one version of ourselves. I mean, when we think back to when we were babies, it's pretty easy, right? Here's this baby can't really do much on its own. And then over time it becomes an adult. An adult can do all sorts of stuff. We can walk, we can talk, we can feed ourselves. We could do all of the things.
Have you ever thought, are you done evolving? What is the rest? Is there more? Remember we had baby calendars? When we either had kids or we were growing up. There were these stickers that would commemorate when we first talked or when we lost our first tooth or when we took our first step.
What if there was a calendar like that for adults as we continued our own evolution? Could you imagine, the first time that we spoke up for ourselves, we get a sticker on the calendar. The first time that we held a boundary, that was really hard for us, w get a sticker. The first time that we realized that we should say no, instead of yes, to something, we get a sticker. All of that personal evolution. But do we actually pay attention to it in ourselves?
How about all of those things that we become responsible for in our life? As we become adults, we learn that we have to be able to take care of ourselves. We have a lot to be responsible for. We have bills that we have to pay. If we choose to have kids, then we're responsible for kids and keeping them alive until they're 18. Then they become responsible for their own lives. But as parents, I think a lot of us feel a little responsibility for our kids for their whole life. But really there is an ending point. Just like when I look at my mom, she's not responsible for anything else in my life. I am a full grown adult. I know how to be responsible for myself. So at what point do we think with our kids, that it's time for them to be fully responsible for their lives?
When we are very responsible people, we know all of the rules and we tend to be rule followers. We know that if we follow the rules, we get everything we want. And if we break the rules, we lose everything. So we choose to follow the rules. We like having all of the stuff. We like having all of the privileges. We like having those positive consequences. And that's what it's really all about. It's all about how we, as humans, learn how we can be responsible and get all of the things in our life that we want.
Things happen in our life. We respond with different actions and behavior, and then we get our consequence. So that's usually our result. It's either a positive result that we want, or it's a negative result that we don't want, or it's neutral. It could go any way. It doesn't really matter.
As responsible people, we found that we really like to have those positive consequences. So we follow all of the rules that are set. All of our behavior matches all the stuff we're supposed to do. We get all those positive rewards. We don't like those negative consequences. We try to stay away from those as much as we can. So when we have clear rules to follow, it's pretty easy to do those things.
Then when we see other people in our life that are not having positive consequences, they're not getting the results that they're wanting in life. We know exactly how to get that. We want to try to help them. And we have these huge hearts, all of us strong people. We want to help other people so much, so that they don't ever have to have the negative consequences, including any of their own emotional suffering over anything.
So we come in, because we know all of the right actions and behaviors, and we try to either do that for them or give them advice on doing those things so they can have the positive result. What do we usually get in return? Sometimes people really appreciate it, especially the advice. They're like, Oh, I never thought about that. Or I didn't know that that rule existed. Now that they know, they know exactly the right behavior to do so that they get the consequences or that result that they're looking for.
Other people, they love it when you do the actions for them, right? Let's say there's a whole list of tasks that need to get done. They don't want to do them. Let's talk dishes. Or scrubbing the toilet. Who really wants to do that? But we don't want the negative outcome from not doing those tasks. If it's assigned to somebody else and they don't want to have that negative consequence andwe don't want that negative consequence (for them or for us, if it's a shared space) we might decide, okay, we're going to just go ahead and do it for you this one time so that we all get that positive consequence. This seems really great. In theory, everybody wins. Right? But do they really? Do you really? By doing that extra task, did you really win?
It might seem like it in the moment. You get that positive bump that you've done something great. But you'll start to see that you're going to develop a pattern. If you haven't noticed it already. That you start to do more of the tasks than other people are doing. You become over responsible.
You've decided that you're responsible for all of these tasks, mainly because you don't want to have to deal with the negative consequences. But sometimes those results are not even yours. You don't want the other people to have the negative consequences. You don't want them to have to suffer with any of their negative feelings. So you decide that you're going to do this extra stuff so that they don't have to deal with their emotions.
Again, heart of gold. Sounds like a great idea until you find yourself getting resentful of them, that that other person is not doing the thing that they're supposed to do. Or maybe you just try to stuff down that resentment. Don't let anybody else see that you're actually feeling it. Let it eat you up inside.
But what they do see, is you getting exhausted by having way too many activities on your plate. If you ever had some well-meaning friend, who's completely outside of that dynamic of you and the other person and that task sharing thing...They see you just looking super tired. You're weary, you're run down. You're just burnt. And that well-meaning friend gives you some advice, right? Because they're probably just as responsible as you are. And they have a huge heart. And they're saying, well, just stop doing their job for them. Right? They can see it. And you know that it's true, but you don't want to. And you're like, you just don't understand, but that friend might actually understand. Maybe they don't, maybe they haven't had that same experience in their life that would give them the desire to want to do all of these things for other people.
Because that's where it all comes from. It's our own desire to want to do things for other people.
Desire is an interesting emotion. All of our actions always come from our emotions. And I know that when you're thinking about helping somebody else, you're probably not stopping yourself. You're not thinking, Oh, what are my emotions right now that are driving these actions?
When you're doing way more than your sharem it has to be coming from a very powerful emotion. Think about the times when you're just super, super tired. And you're like, I can't take on any more activities right now. But you take on this other thing. You do this extra stuff over and beyond what you're supposed to be doing.
How is that happening? If you're super tired, how is it that you're finding the energy to go and do this other stuff? Well, it comes from that intense feeling. The more intense the feeling, the more likely it is that you're going to do the action.
So in this case, it's coming from desire. The desire to help other people.
Over the last several weeks, I've been learning a lot about desire from an unlikely source. I mentioned that I am in life coach certification through the life coach school. There is a program in there on over-drinking. So as part of going through this whole program, I am experiencing the program as if I'm a client so that I can appropriately coach people. When we got to the over-drinking part, we're talking about desire. I thought, well, I can understand that. Especially with drinking that yes, sometimes you just really want to drink, right?
But I was like, there's something else that I desire even more than drinking. And that's on helping people. And I might even go even a little further and say, rescuing people. You might be able to relate.
I just want to be able to help the whole world. I see all sorts of people out in the world and I see them suffering. And I know that all suffering is coming from either a mindset obstacle or a process obstacle. And I'm like, Hey, I can help all of you so that you don't have to suffer. Especially the ones where the amount of suffering is causing them to go into deep depression. I really want to help those people because I've been there myself. I was grateful that someone else showed me a few things and it was enough to help me get out of my own depression. Also, when I see things on the news, like mass shootings, those people that are doing the shooting. They're obviously in some kind of distress. If I could just get to them and help them, then they wouldn't feel that kind of urge to go out and do that type of activity that ends up hurting a lot of people.
So I have this over desire to want to help the whole world. But I'm just one person. I can come up with all sorts of strategies for how I can help as many people as I can. But it still can lead to me doing more than I'm supposed to be doing. More tasks than what I am supposed to have on my plate. Why this is important...because I know this is going to relate to you too. When you take on more than you're supposed to, and you're feeling that urgency. That it has to happen now, because all of these people are suffering. Or people are having some severe negative consequences. You want to get out there and do everything you can and give it your all.
There's nothing left for you. This can have some serious repercussions on your own health. Just like over desiring alcohol leads to over drinking. Over desiring helping people can lead to over responsibility, and over doing stuff. Doing things in a small amount is usually fine. It's usually healthy. Even drinking. You can have one glass of wine. It's okay. They even had studies that red wine can help your heart. You can be healthy, but it's for one glass, not a whole bottle or several bottles. This can be similar to helping. Although with drinking, you're consuming something. With helpingm , you're putting something out, right? You're putting your energy out into the world.
When you put out a reasonable amount of energy out into the world, let's quantify this as the number of hours in the day. Just to try to make it easy. Because that's something we can all measure. If you've decided that eight hours of help a day is healthy for you, there's enough time for you to take care of you. For resting, for eating, for exercise, for, you know, pleasurable activities, whatever it is. If you've decided that eight hours is healthy, you go out, you do your eight hours, it's all good.
But if you're starting to get that desire to do more than that, then that can lead to you working 10 hours or 12 hours, or maybe even 16 hours. Maybe you decide to work multiple days straight without a break. That is going to have some serious health repercussions on you. I had a mini-stroke from overworking, overstressing about the work that I was doing for this one company. We were creating software and a product that would help diagnose people's infections and tell them what medicine to take and what dosage it could help save a life. I felt this sense of urgency to get this project done as soon as possible. If we could get this product out to the market. we could save these people right now.
I also felt this over responsibility to the people on my project team. I was the leader and I didn't want them to have to work a whole lot of extra hours and have that impact their lives and their health. So I thought, well, I'll take one for the team. I will put in more hours because my experience level with doing this type of work was a lot higher. I could get through a lot more of the work, a lot faster than some of the people that were relatively new to this type of work. That was not a healthy choice. It led to working 46 days straight. And on some of those days, all the way up to 23 hours in one day, and just taking a quick one hour nap and then getting right back into it all, because that desire was so strong.
Now, the thing with desire is that if you feed it, it gets bigger.
So when you have desire, you have this uncontrollable urge that is propelling you forward to do these actions.
As soon as you do those actions, you're getting some type of a reward. In my case, I was seeing the progress bar move faster. I was getting instant gratification. That instant reward. It fueled my fire to keep going.
I'm curious. When you find yourself feeling over responsible and doing more tasks than you should, or doing tasks for other people that they should be doing, why do you think you're feeling that desire?
We know all of our feelings are coming from a thought. What thought are you having that fuels your desire to help people? I'm not saying that your thought is wrong. I'm just asking you to wonder what that thought is because it's very interesting to examine that. Especially if you're finding that the end result for you is something that is not healthy.
When I did this with myself, and this has been ongoing over several years because I'm trying to understand myself, I'm on my own personal evolution journey. I've always been an over responsible person. I have felt responsible for people's lives, not just patients, but people in my own life. My kids' lives, my husband, my mom, coworkers. I'll see people going down a path of self-destruction. I can see the health consequences coming, and I feel responsible for that. I feel like their end result is something that I need to go and help rescue them from. It's like, I can see those consequences coming and I don't want those consequences for them.
The interesting thing with desire, it helps us with two different things.
So I sat down and I tried to figure it out. Okay, it's pretty easy to try to figure out what is the thing I want to move towards. Desire can move you towards something that you really, really like. So having that superhero cape on, of saving the day, huge amount of positive consequences. For me, my emotions, were huge on that. I want to see people have all of the positive consequences. If I'm the one that helped them along the way, even if the celebration is theirs, I also get to have that positive bump of feelings. Knowing that I was a significant contributor to them having that success. That feels amazing. It feels great to be the winner, right? If you're the one that did all of the work and at the end, you're the one that gets to celebrate. That feels great. Being responsible totally rocks! Follow all the rules, you get everything you want. That feels great. You're being responsible for other people. You're helping rescue them, whatever. And then they win. That feels great. Okay. So that part of desire, I totally understood.
What I didn't understand was what was I trying to move away from? So I had to think. If I did not jump in and try to help people, what could happen? I started thinking about the negative consequences that they could have. How would I feel once they had that negative consequence? I mean, of course I'm going to feel sad, but there was something stronger there. I start searching through all of the different types of emotions. Now it's pretty easy to just say, happy, sad, mad, stressed. But when we start to look, how many different emotions can a human go through? When we can get very specific about what emotion we're feeling. We start to understand ourselves a little bit more.
I did a little deep dive, started searching, and the word remorse came to me.
Remorse is different than regret. Regret is just wishing we did or didn't do something.
Remorse is so much deeper and stronger of an emotion than regret. Because remorse involves shame. Remorse is that we believe that we were personally responsible for something and that it's our fault for not taking a certain action. So that's what I was really trying to avoid. I was trying to avoid that feeling of remorse. I felt responsible for their result, whatever that result was.
It feels great to be responsible when they get the positive one. But if they get the negative one, especially if it's a tragic one, I don't want to feel that kind of remorse. So that's what was always fueling my desire to go and help them do all of this stuff. Or do the stuff for them, so that I could avoid feeling remorse.
One of the keys that I learned through the overdrinking course that I was telling you about, was the way to stop overdrinking. This isn't to eliminate all drinking. You know, you're still going to do some, but a healthy amount, something that's right for you. The way to help decrease drinking, so you're not drinking more than what you want to, is to decrease the desire.
How do you decrease desire and would you really want to?
I want to be able to help people. Just like I might want to have a drink every now and then. It doesn't mean that I want to have a whole bunch of drink. It doesn't mean that I want to spend every hour of my day helping other people and not taking care of my own health.
The key was decreasing your desire by solving the underlying need. What was the thing that you were trying to either get, or the thing that you were trying to avoid?
That thing that you're trying to get...understand, why are you trying to get that? Maybe you can get that in a different way that doesn't involve this (over drinking or over helping).
You're solving for that underlying problem. If you can fill it through a different mechanism, then there's no need for the desire of the thing (over drinking or over helping) that you don't want to do anymore.
Same thing with that feeling that you're trying to avoid. If I can understand that underlying feeling that I was trying to avoid, I can solve for that problem instead. Then I won't have the extra desire, I won't be doing all of stuff, and having the extra responsibility.
So the feeling that I was having was remorse. Remorse- When we're looking at the definition, it's that we're feeling that intense guilt for having done something wrong or not doing the right thing. And that we felt responsible. This outcome was our responsibility. And I thought, this ties perfectly. I mean, over responsible. Yeah. I felt responsible for the other person's result. I didn't want them to have that negative consequences, or I wanted them to have the positive. If they didn't have that result that I wanted for them, then I'm going to feel like I did something wrong or that I didn't do enough.
But the thing is, their results are their's.
It's part of the whole way that humans are learning behavior. We do our behavior, we get our results. The results are either positive, negative, or neutral based on what those results are. The human performing those activities decide if they want to change the behavior or not. In a previous episode called How to Get Change Without Being the Bad Guy, I introduced the ABC model of human behavior.
A- antecedent. Like a triggering event.
The result is the consequence. It's either positive, negative, or neutral. The result was always meant to be their's. This is their freedom of choice of what result they want.
By me thinking that I was responsible for their result, it would drive all of my desire, which then would fuel all of my actions, which might give me a result of negative health consequences from doing too much.
My actions could also result in some resentment towards those people who are supposed to be doing the actions for their own results. Being responsible for someone else's results is something that is a common theme in the coaching industry.
Are coaches responsible for the results? Or are coaches responsible for something else?
What is the desired result and who owns it?
Some of the coaching that I would do when I was working in biotech would follow a very structured process of helping people to see their processes and all of the steps, all of the details in all of those processes so that they could understand where their root problems were. And then they could come up with solutions, some different projects and activities that they could do to resolve that root cause so that their process would be faster or deliver more widgets at the end of the day, or cost less, take less time. All of that.
It was hard for me to distinguish what I was responsible for. Because when you're talking about your accomplishments for why someone would want to have you as their coach, people want to know what kind of results can they expect. When really the results are their own. It's how much work they want to put into it.
Sometimes the results that we get as a coach for our clients are something intangible. Especially when we're looking at those mindset shifts, or if we're shifting any kind of identity components. How do you measure that?
A lot of times you can feel that you've changed. You know, that you approach life in a different way. You have different ways of thinking about things, but if someone was to come up and say, okay, so what did you get? You might have a hard time putting your finger on it.
I remember when one of my coworkers, this was back in 2006, said you seem like you're stuck on something. She suggested that I go to the Landmark Forum. I said, okay, well, what is it? And she couldn't really describe what it was other than they had this three-day long workshop that you go to. It's very long. At the end you feel a lot better. And I was like, okay, but what happens? And she goes, well, I can't really describe it. But she knew that it had made this profound difference on her life and that things were so much better. And it was across the board on all sorts of different things. At the time, I was super stuck. So I decided to go. And it really was, it was huge. It was eye opening. Like my mind just was blown after three days. But again, if someone was to ask me, what exactly was that deliverable? What did you get out of it? It's hard to really quantify it. Because you've had such a profound change in yourself, in your thinking of your own thoughts, your awareness of how your brain is working, that you can't really say, Oh yeah, I was able to get a product out the door.
What was the thing? And I remember the only way I could describe it when I went to that, is that I used to get so wrapped up thinking about the knot holes in the trees, that I couldn't see a tree, let alone see the whole forest. But when I had this profound change, as a result of this coaching, I could see the whole forest and I could see each individual tree. I could still go visit the knot holes if I wanted to. But I wasn't so caught up in the knot holes. I could actually breathe and see everything. How do you describe that as an end result? It's really interesting.
So as a coach, how would you describe the end result that you get people now? For me, I felt this huge responsibility to save people's lives. I mean my mission is to lower the suicide rate. So yeah, I still want to go out and save a bunch of people's lives. But what is it specifically that I do for people? I learned from my coach instructor through the life coach school, that she feels that her responsibility in that coaching relationship is just to show people their mind. That's it, she's not focused on the end result of weight loss or certification, or higher productivity. Any of that. She has decided that her responsibility is solely to show people their mind and how it's thinking. I thought, wow, do people want to buy that?
For me, it's made a profound difference on my own life, but wow. That's an interesting one to try to just tell people. And how many people would go searching for that? Would they go to Google and search for someone to help me see my mind? That's kind of a strange one, right?
But really that's where the power lies. Your mind creates the thoughts that create your results.
I was leading this workshop back when I worked in biotech. We all (coaches) have our different processes for how we coach people. I have multiple different processes that I use. One of these for this particular team was called Shingo mapping. It's all about mapping out your process with sticky notes and then going down deep into the weeds on all of the different details for each of those process steps and then using red string.
The red string...The concept is to show all of the defects within a process. You can detect when a defect happens, like something in your process doesn't work and you tape a piece of string onto that sticky note. And then you have to take the other end and show where in the process the defect was introduced. It could be anywhere in the process back to when it first kicked off with a supplier of something. It could be a supplier of information. It could be a supplier of some kind of input into the process. Where in that process did this defect start? And then you'd tape it on there. At the end of the exercise, you've identified all of your defects. You can count how many pieces of string you have. And you're trying to resolve all of those defects so that you have less of them. So if you had 20 strings up there, by the time you did all of your improvement stuff, maybe you'd be down to two strings instead of 20. That's a tangible, measurable thing.
With this team, they were a really upset team. And that's usually how I encounter people. People usually don't want help unless they are so uncomfortable with their current results that they're desperate. And they're like, please, someone help us. Something is wrong. We don't know what. Just please help because it sucks feeling like this.
As a coach, it's like, perfect, perfect timing. We want to help people to not suffer. We use whatever processes we have to help people to see stuff and know exactly what to fix. Like pinpoint the exact thing, so that they can fix it and then move on and feel a lot better. So I did this exercise with them and much to my surprise, they had 110 defects. 110 little pieces of red string.
Now, as a coach, we may want people to follow our process all the way through. Let's say that our process takes 10 weeks and it has 20 steps in it or something. We don't want people to abandon it right in the middle. But that's exactly what happened with this team. Once they saw all of this red string on the wall, their emotions took off like fireworks. It (the number of defects) wasn't anything new. It's just, they were so mad that they had so many defects. And now they could point to it and really get loud about it. So we closed the door, allowed them to just vent all they wanted to.
As a coach, what's interesting is that I see things through a different perspective. I'm not only just looking at people's processes and the checks and balances of it all. I'm also looking for themes. Those defects are showing up for a reason, what is the theme? And to me, it was pretty obvious. As I'm looking at all of it, it's like, well, you're being over responsible. You're doing everybody else's work for them and you don't have enough time to do your own work.
It wasn't just that they were cleaning up other people's mistakes. They were inviting the mistakes into their process.
All of these red strings were indicating that there was people pleasing going on and a whole lot of rescuing.
3 common challenges for Letting Go of Responsibility
When I started to ask questions about it, that's where it was really starting to light up with the emotional flare guns. Because the defensiveness was there. They felt this moral obligation to help people, which I get, you know, I want to go out and save the world too.
But what was happening was that because you had the people pleasing going on ,because you had the ego of the expert in there, because you had the people that were like, yeah, let's just get it done fast, fast, fast, fast, fast.
The people in the team were doing work that was never meant for their group to do.
They were doing other people's work for them.
That's what all of the red string was. Every single one of those 110 was all a piece of work that was supposed to be done by somebody else outside of the group.
And this was just for one widget passing through the process. Could you imagine that one process? How many steps could one process have? I think this one might've had like 10 steps. And I mean, detail in the steps could be a lot more stuff, but still 110 extra tasks that they never had to do. It was never their responsibility.
So of course they're feeling upset because they're having to do all of these heroics to do all of this extra stuff.
But it wasn't because the other people weren't doing it. And that's the key. Just like when we're trying to help save the rest of the world... The other people always had the choice on if they were going to do that task and the end result is where they would feel consequences if they didn't do the action. The consequence would be for them if they did the action. And if it was a positive consequence - that got to be their celebration.
But what was happening was that this group was swooping in and doing the behaviors for the other people so that they never had that learning process. It was interrupted for them.
They never knew that they were even supposed to be doing these actions. Because someone else was already doing it for them.
Or there were times where they were saying, Oh, this should be my action. And I need to learn it. But somebody else didn't want the consequence of the completion of that activity taking a long time, or they didn't want that person to have to have mistakes or a learning process, a learning curve that, you know, might take a while to learn. So they were swooping in and doing all of this extra work.
It was keeping all of these other people in a state of incompetency.
The end result I was helping them towards was a smooth process that didn't have defects.
The responsibility that I had was to help them to see their process, to see where the defects were and to understand the root cause. When we got to that root cause, which was their own behavior, they didn't like that answer.
But they left it up there on the board. All of this red string was in a conference room. It stayed there for a couple of weeks and I had to be okay with that.
You know, as much as we want to race to try to get our clients that end result as fast as possible, sometimes they're not ready to go that fast.
They found the root cause. And they need to marinate on that for a while. Because this, especially this one on being over responsible, they also had remorse that they were trying to avoid. They didn't want to be the ones held responsible for someone else not meeting their end result. They had that moral tug of war to help someone that's struggling. Do you allow them to struggle so that they can learn and grow and be able to do this on their own? Or do you do it for them?
Sometimes as a coach, our responsibility really is just to show people their own process and their own mind at work, because that can be the best gift ever.
Now, how can you apply this to your life?
You may not be a professional coach, but everybody is a coach to a certain extent with any of the people that they come in contact with. I'm sure that as someone who is a strong person, who's responsible at everything, you've tried to help other people. You've tried to help them with advice. You've tried by doing things for them. But what if you became their coach and you just help them to be able to see how is it that they're acting in life in their own processes? How are they thinking about things? And just allow them to feel the consequence of results for themselves so that they can decide if they want to change their behavior or not.
People are not going to change behavior unless there is something so uncomfortable that they're willing to do some work on themselves or get some help so that they can change their behaviors. Are you willing to allow that to happen for them? Are you willing to be a coach in their life to help them through their own learning process? And to hold the space. Give them enough time to process everything that they have going on and not try to rescue them from the consequences. Allow them to learn from the consequences, the positive ones and the negative ones.
It's all about how you reduce your desire to want to over do things, to over help, to over rescue, to be over responsible.
Why is that desire present? There it's either something that you really, really want that could be solved in a different way. Or it's something that you're trying to avoid. What is that feeling?
We can survive through any kind of feeling. Feelings are just a vibration in our body. They eventually go away. They'll just pass through our body. What is it like?
There's always a thought behind that feeling. So sometimes when that feeling is super intense, you need to work on that thought. To switch it out so that that desire can go down and then you won't be doing so much and you can take care of yourself.
I'll leave you with one final thing that a coach shared with me years back, she said, never work harder than your client. Because honestly, their result has to be something that they actually want.
All right. My strong friends have a wonderful week. I will talk with you soon. Bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to My Freedom Grove podcast. I can't wait to work with you directly. I'll help you to be your authentic self, to have amazing relationships and to live your purpose. I invite you to check out unshakable men and unshakable women. The unshakable programs will give you all of the tools, the coaching and the community to help you rise in life, relationships, and business. To learn more, go to myfreedomgrove.com/work with me. I can't wait to see you there.
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